Immortality or Resurrection, William West [best romance books of all time txt] 📗
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a holding place unto the resurrection. If it were a literal story and not a parable, as many believe it is, it would be both in conflict with and a contradiction of the belief that all go at once to Heaven or Hell at death; it would be positive proof that no one does.
Many realizing that the Orthodox teaching that a person goes to Heaven or Hell at death is not from the Bible, and no one will be in Heaven before and without a resurrection and judgment, knew they had to have an intermediate or third place that is not Heaven or Hell to put their immortal soul from death unto the resurrection. Is the best they can do is to try to make a parable into a true story, making Abraham's bosom into a holding place unto the resurrection? In doing this, they must set aside the plain teaching on death and the resurrection as if they did not exist. Making this into a real story and not a parable may be a life or death struggle with them, for the Bible gives them nowhere for the living soul to be living in before the resurrection, no other place, and they need to make this into a real place. If they do not, they have living souls with nowhere for them to be living in before the resurrection and judgment. They cannot have them in Heaven or their Hell unto the resurrection; but they must have somewhere to keep them. They cannot even agree among themselves, for some say it is a parable, and some say, "No it is a true story." Many that think it is a parable will use it as if it were a true story. They say it teaches the same thing either way. "Notes On The Parables Of Our Lord" by R. C. Trench is ranked as one of the best on the parables. He not only says this is a parable, but on page 17 says parables are not to be made the first sources to teach a doctrine. To go from the clear to the obscure has been recognized as the law of Scriptural interpretation, but this has been forgotten by those looking for an argument to sustain a weak position, and often invent for themselves support in parables. On page 162 Trench says it is most important to keep in mind that this parable has as it's central thought the rebuke of unbelief. Nevertheless, this parable is used as the first and only source to teach a doctrine that is not found in any other part of the Bible.
Some that believe in Hell often point to Luke 16 to prove there is torment after death; but when pushed, most of them will admit hades is not Hell; but they need to prove there is torment in Hell and therefore use the torment of the rich man in hades in this parable and hope in some way to transfer the torment in hades to torment in Hell. EVEN IF THIS WERE A TRUE STORY AND NOT A PARABLE, IT MAY PROVE THAT THERE IS TORMENT BEFORE THE RESURRECTION, BUT IT WOULD PROVE NOTHING ABOUT WHAT WILL BE AFTER THE RESURRECTION, OR THAT THERE WILL EVEN BE A HELL AFTER THE RESURRECTION; yet, Luke 16 is one of the most used passages to try to prove there is a Hell and there is torment in Hell even though there is nothing about Hell in the parable. They are desperately looking for proof of Hell, which they cannot find. It says nothing of Heaven. Hell, or a soul. The complete silence of the scriptures about the dead being anywhere before the resurrection other than the grave is a deathblow to the doctrine of an immortal soul; THOSE WHO MAKE THIS PARABLE INTO A LITERAL STORY AND ARE TRYING TO PROVE THE ABRAHAM'S BOSOM VIEW, OR TO PROVE HELL, USE IT TO PUT ASIDE HUNDREDS OF PLAIN PASSAGES OF SCRIPTURE.
This is the last in a series of five parables all spoken to the Pharisee and Scribes, all in the same speech.
1. The lost sheep [Luke 15:3-7].
2. The lost coin [Luke 15:8-10] not called a parable.
3. The lost son [Luke 15:11-32] "a certain man" not called a parable.
4. The unjust steward [Luke 16:1-13] "a certain rich man" not called a parable.
5. The rich man and Lazarus [Luke 16:19-31] "a certain rich man" not called a parable.
• Four of the five are not called a parable.
• Three of the five begin with "a certain...man."
• Two of the five have "a certain rich man."
• No one makes the other four be a true story, but they desperately need the rich man and Lazarus to be a true story to have proof of their doctrine.
Five "a certain" in a row.
1. "A certain man" [Luke 14:16].
2. "A certain man" [Luke 15:11]. No one questions these two being a parable.
3. "A certain rich man" [Luke 16:1]. And no one questions this being a parable.
4. "A certain rich man" [Luke 16:19]. Why do many question this being a parable?
5. "And a certain beggar named Lazarus" [Luke 16:20].
Christ used "a certain" 18 times, and all 18 are in parables [Matthew 18:23; 21:28; 31:23; 22:2; Mark 12:1; Luke 7:41; 10:30; 10:31; 10:33; 12:16; 13:6; 14:16; 15:11; 16:1; 16:19: 16:20; 19:12; 20:9]. No one questions that the other 16 times "a certain" is used as being in parables, only the two in this parable to make them fit with their literal view, but they DESPERATELY NEED this to be a parable for it to be proof of their doctrine of Hell EVEN IF IT MAKES THE PASSAGE CONTRADICT WHAT THEY BELIEVE ABOUT HELL.
THOSE WHO MAKE THIS PARABLE INTO A LITERAL STORY DO NOT ACCEPT THE MAIN PART OF IT AS BEING LITERAL. They do not accept Abraham’s bosom as being a literal place but as a symbolic place; his literal bosom had turned to dust many years before and there would not be room for even one person in Abraham’s literal bosom; therefore, if part of it cannot be literal none of it can be literal, if it is a true story all of it must be literal. It is a symbolic picture or a true story; it cannot be a mixture of the two.
The objection of some is that it is not called a parable. Less than half, only 11 of the 26 parables in Luke are called a parable. The three parables before this one that are a part of the series of five parables all spoken to the Pharisee and Scribes in the same speech are not called parables but no one questions them being parables. The objection of others is that parables do not use proper names. "And he took up his parable, and said, 'From ARAM has BALAK brought me, the king of MOAB from the mountains of the East: come, curse me JACOB, and come, defy ISRAEL'" [Numbers 23:7]. Not one but FIVE PROPER NAMES are used in one parable. "SATAN" [Mark 4:14] and "THE SON OF MAN" [Matthew 13:37] are used in parables.
If one attempts to explain all the elements as though they are literal, the difficulties of making this be a true story will be seen.
THE RICH MAN
This is an allegory of the Jews who were rich in God's blessing. Israel was spiritually rich [see Romans 9:3-5]. All Luke 16 is on the subject of stewardship. The Jews failed to share with the Gentiles giving them only the crumb, and most of the Jews failed to believe in Christ. The Gentiles were spiritually poor. This parable is a satire condemning the Jewish nation, the Scribes, and Pharisees. Christ used one of their own uninspired fables, which those He was speaking to would know about [see Josephus and others], which He changed only slightly as the base of this parable to show the end of the Jewish nation as God's chosen people. See Matthew 21:43-45; 24:2; Luke 13:28; Matthew 23:1-39. Throughout much of the Old Testament Israel did not obey God and rejected Christ, therefore, were rejected by God. Israel is no longer His chosen people. Their torment was being without God and rejected by Him, and as a nation Israel is dead and in hades, the grave. When they reject Christ there was no comfort for them, no water to cool their tongue [Luke 16:24].
A picture of the rich Jews and the poor Gentiles is given in Matthew 15:22-27. "And behold, a Canaanitish women came out from those borders, and saying, have mercy on me, O Lord...But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the house of Israel. But, she came and worshipped him saying, Lord, help me. And he answered and said, It is not good to take the children's [Israel's] bread and cast it to the dogs [Gentiles]. But she said, Yea, Lord: for even the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." He gives her the crumbs and healed her daughter.
"And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth" [Matthew 8:11-12]. "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" [Matthew 21:43]. "O Jerusalem...your house is left unto you desolate" [Matthew 23:37-38].
"Odunaomai" [Used only four times in the New Testament, Wigram, Page 524] is translated "tormented" in the King James Version in Luke 16:24 and 25, but is translated "in anguish" both times in the American Standard Version. It is used only two other times and was translated "sorrowing" in the King James Version, when Mary said to Christ "and I have sought thee sorrowing [odunaomai]" Luke 2:48 and when Paul told the elders at Miletus that they would see him no more, "sorrowing [odunaomai] most of all for the words which he had spoken" Acts 20:38; neither Mary or the elders at Miletus were tormented. THE ANGUISH (or sorrowing - not torment) OF THE RICH MAN WAS ISRAEL BEING REJECTED BY GOD AS A NATION. This parable is about those who were rich in God's blessing and those who were poor in God's blessing, not a literal story about a person who was a beggar. "Ptokos" is used thirty-four times in the New Testament and is always translated "poor" except in this parable and Galatians 4:9 and where it is translated beggar in the King James Version, and poor in the New American Standard.
• “And given to the poor (ptokos) Matthew 26:11
• “A certain poor (ptokos) widow” Mark 12:42
• “Preach the gospel to the poor (ptokos)” Luke 4:18
• “Contribution to the poor (ptokos) saints” Romans 15:26
• “As poor (ptokos), yet making many rich” 2 Corinthians 6:10
• “And a certain poor (ptokos) man named Lazarus” Luke 16:20 New American Standard.
This parable is about the Jews who were rich in God’s word and the rest of the world that was poor (ptokos), in spiritual poverty.
Dr. Gill, an orthodox Protestant who believed in the intermediate state of the dead, in his commentary of Luke said, "The rich man died: It may also be understood of the political and ecclesiastical death of the Jewish people, which
Many realizing that the Orthodox teaching that a person goes to Heaven or Hell at death is not from the Bible, and no one will be in Heaven before and without a resurrection and judgment, knew they had to have an intermediate or third place that is not Heaven or Hell to put their immortal soul from death unto the resurrection. Is the best they can do is to try to make a parable into a true story, making Abraham's bosom into a holding place unto the resurrection? In doing this, they must set aside the plain teaching on death and the resurrection as if they did not exist. Making this into a real story and not a parable may be a life or death struggle with them, for the Bible gives them nowhere for the living soul to be living in before the resurrection, no other place, and they need to make this into a real place. If they do not, they have living souls with nowhere for them to be living in before the resurrection and judgment. They cannot have them in Heaven or their Hell unto the resurrection; but they must have somewhere to keep them. They cannot even agree among themselves, for some say it is a parable, and some say, "No it is a true story." Many that think it is a parable will use it as if it were a true story. They say it teaches the same thing either way. "Notes On The Parables Of Our Lord" by R. C. Trench is ranked as one of the best on the parables. He not only says this is a parable, but on page 17 says parables are not to be made the first sources to teach a doctrine. To go from the clear to the obscure has been recognized as the law of Scriptural interpretation, but this has been forgotten by those looking for an argument to sustain a weak position, and often invent for themselves support in parables. On page 162 Trench says it is most important to keep in mind that this parable has as it's central thought the rebuke of unbelief. Nevertheless, this parable is used as the first and only source to teach a doctrine that is not found in any other part of the Bible.
Some that believe in Hell often point to Luke 16 to prove there is torment after death; but when pushed, most of them will admit hades is not Hell; but they need to prove there is torment in Hell and therefore use the torment of the rich man in hades in this parable and hope in some way to transfer the torment in hades to torment in Hell. EVEN IF THIS WERE A TRUE STORY AND NOT A PARABLE, IT MAY PROVE THAT THERE IS TORMENT BEFORE THE RESURRECTION, BUT IT WOULD PROVE NOTHING ABOUT WHAT WILL BE AFTER THE RESURRECTION, OR THAT THERE WILL EVEN BE A HELL AFTER THE RESURRECTION; yet, Luke 16 is one of the most used passages to try to prove there is a Hell and there is torment in Hell even though there is nothing about Hell in the parable. They are desperately looking for proof of Hell, which they cannot find. It says nothing of Heaven. Hell, or a soul. The complete silence of the scriptures about the dead being anywhere before the resurrection other than the grave is a deathblow to the doctrine of an immortal soul; THOSE WHO MAKE THIS PARABLE INTO A LITERAL STORY AND ARE TRYING TO PROVE THE ABRAHAM'S BOSOM VIEW, OR TO PROVE HELL, USE IT TO PUT ASIDE HUNDREDS OF PLAIN PASSAGES OF SCRIPTURE.
This is the last in a series of five parables all spoken to the Pharisee and Scribes, all in the same speech.
1. The lost sheep [Luke 15:3-7].
2. The lost coin [Luke 15:8-10] not called a parable.
3. The lost son [Luke 15:11-32] "a certain man" not called a parable.
4. The unjust steward [Luke 16:1-13] "a certain rich man" not called a parable.
5. The rich man and Lazarus [Luke 16:19-31] "a certain rich man" not called a parable.
• Four of the five are not called a parable.
• Three of the five begin with "a certain...man."
• Two of the five have "a certain rich man."
• No one makes the other four be a true story, but they desperately need the rich man and Lazarus to be a true story to have proof of their doctrine.
Five "a certain" in a row.
1. "A certain man" [Luke 14:16].
2. "A certain man" [Luke 15:11]. No one questions these two being a parable.
3. "A certain rich man" [Luke 16:1]. And no one questions this being a parable.
4. "A certain rich man" [Luke 16:19]. Why do many question this being a parable?
5. "And a certain beggar named Lazarus" [Luke 16:20].
Christ used "a certain" 18 times, and all 18 are in parables [Matthew 18:23; 21:28; 31:23; 22:2; Mark 12:1; Luke 7:41; 10:30; 10:31; 10:33; 12:16; 13:6; 14:16; 15:11; 16:1; 16:19: 16:20; 19:12; 20:9]. No one questions that the other 16 times "a certain" is used as being in parables, only the two in this parable to make them fit with their literal view, but they DESPERATELY NEED this to be a parable for it to be proof of their doctrine of Hell EVEN IF IT MAKES THE PASSAGE CONTRADICT WHAT THEY BELIEVE ABOUT HELL.
THOSE WHO MAKE THIS PARABLE INTO A LITERAL STORY DO NOT ACCEPT THE MAIN PART OF IT AS BEING LITERAL. They do not accept Abraham’s bosom as being a literal place but as a symbolic place; his literal bosom had turned to dust many years before and there would not be room for even one person in Abraham’s literal bosom; therefore, if part of it cannot be literal none of it can be literal, if it is a true story all of it must be literal. It is a symbolic picture or a true story; it cannot be a mixture of the two.
The objection of some is that it is not called a parable. Less than half, only 11 of the 26 parables in Luke are called a parable. The three parables before this one that are a part of the series of five parables all spoken to the Pharisee and Scribes in the same speech are not called parables but no one questions them being parables. The objection of others is that parables do not use proper names. "And he took up his parable, and said, 'From ARAM has BALAK brought me, the king of MOAB from the mountains of the East: come, curse me JACOB, and come, defy ISRAEL'" [Numbers 23:7]. Not one but FIVE PROPER NAMES are used in one parable. "SATAN" [Mark 4:14] and "THE SON OF MAN" [Matthew 13:37] are used in parables.
If one attempts to explain all the elements as though they are literal, the difficulties of making this be a true story will be seen.
THE RICH MAN
This is an allegory of the Jews who were rich in God's blessing. Israel was spiritually rich [see Romans 9:3-5]. All Luke 16 is on the subject of stewardship. The Jews failed to share with the Gentiles giving them only the crumb, and most of the Jews failed to believe in Christ. The Gentiles were spiritually poor. This parable is a satire condemning the Jewish nation, the Scribes, and Pharisees. Christ used one of their own uninspired fables, which those He was speaking to would know about [see Josephus and others], which He changed only slightly as the base of this parable to show the end of the Jewish nation as God's chosen people. See Matthew 21:43-45; 24:2; Luke 13:28; Matthew 23:1-39. Throughout much of the Old Testament Israel did not obey God and rejected Christ, therefore, were rejected by God. Israel is no longer His chosen people. Their torment was being without God and rejected by Him, and as a nation Israel is dead and in hades, the grave. When they reject Christ there was no comfort for them, no water to cool their tongue [Luke 16:24].
A picture of the rich Jews and the poor Gentiles is given in Matthew 15:22-27. "And behold, a Canaanitish women came out from those borders, and saying, have mercy on me, O Lord...But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the house of Israel. But, she came and worshipped him saying, Lord, help me. And he answered and said, It is not good to take the children's [Israel's] bread and cast it to the dogs [Gentiles]. But she said, Yea, Lord: for even the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." He gives her the crumbs and healed her daughter.
"And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth" [Matthew 8:11-12]. "Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" [Matthew 21:43]. "O Jerusalem...your house is left unto you desolate" [Matthew 23:37-38].
"Odunaomai" [Used only four times in the New Testament, Wigram, Page 524] is translated "tormented" in the King James Version in Luke 16:24 and 25, but is translated "in anguish" both times in the American Standard Version. It is used only two other times and was translated "sorrowing" in the King James Version, when Mary said to Christ "and I have sought thee sorrowing [odunaomai]" Luke 2:48 and when Paul told the elders at Miletus that they would see him no more, "sorrowing [odunaomai] most of all for the words which he had spoken" Acts 20:38; neither Mary or the elders at Miletus were tormented. THE ANGUISH (or sorrowing - not torment) OF THE RICH MAN WAS ISRAEL BEING REJECTED BY GOD AS A NATION. This parable is about those who were rich in God's blessing and those who were poor in God's blessing, not a literal story about a person who was a beggar. "Ptokos" is used thirty-four times in the New Testament and is always translated "poor" except in this parable and Galatians 4:9 and where it is translated beggar in the King James Version, and poor in the New American Standard.
• “And given to the poor (ptokos) Matthew 26:11
• “A certain poor (ptokos) widow” Mark 12:42
• “Preach the gospel to the poor (ptokos)” Luke 4:18
• “Contribution to the poor (ptokos) saints” Romans 15:26
• “As poor (ptokos), yet making many rich” 2 Corinthians 6:10
• “And a certain poor (ptokos) man named Lazarus” Luke 16:20 New American Standard.
This parable is about the Jews who were rich in God’s word and the rest of the world that was poor (ptokos), in spiritual poverty.
Dr. Gill, an orthodox Protestant who believed in the intermediate state of the dead, in his commentary of Luke said, "The rich man died: It may also be understood of the political and ecclesiastical death of the Jewish people, which
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