Immortality or Resurrection (Updated), William West [black female authors .txt] 📗

or not unto after the resurrection?
• "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of
the archangel, and with the trump of God: AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL
RISE FIRST; [all the dead in Christ shall rise at the same time at the coming of
Christ] them that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in
the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH
THE LORD" [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17]. Both (1) believers that are dead in Christ
and (2) believers that will be alive at His coming will BOTH TOGETHER be
caught up and ever be with the Lord; this clearly shows that the dead in Christ are
not now in Heaven with the Lord before and without being resurrected from the
dead. If they were now alive in Heaven they would not be “dead in Christ,” they
could not “rise first,” be resurrected from the dead before those who are alive are
“changed.”
• “We all shall not sleep but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling
of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound and THE DEAD
SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For
this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON
IMMORTALITY” [1 Corinthians 15:51-53]. Paul is clearly speaking of this mortal
person putting on immortality, not an immortal soul putting on immortality.
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• At our gathering together unto Him at “the coming of the Lord” [2 Thessalonians
2:1]
• When the Lord shall descend from Heaven with a shout [1 Thessalonians 4:13-17]
• When Christ who is our life shall be manifest [Colossians 3:4]
• "In the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord,
the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to
all who have loved His appearing" [2 Timothy 4:8]. If it is "on that day" it is not
possible to be at death.
• "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have
told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for
you, I will come again, and RECEIVE YOU to Myself; that where I am, there
you may be also" [John 14:2-3]. Christ has not yet come to receive Paul or
anyone. He did not say to those in Heaven with Him, "I will come again, and
RECEIVE YOUR BODY, that where we are, there YOUR BODY may be also be
with us." Did Jesus say, "And if I go" your death shall soon bring you to me? No.
He said, "I will come again and receive you to Myself."
• "For this is the will of my Father that everyone that beholds the Son, and believes
on him, should have eternal life; AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST
DAY" [John 6:40, 44, 54]. Is He going to rise up "everyone that beholds the Son,
and believes on him" by bringing them from Heaven, or by raising them from the
dead? Also 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; John 11:24; 1 John 3:2, and many other
passages.
Even though Paul know his death was near he anticipated receiving “the crown or
righteousness” to be given to him by the Lord “at that day,” not at his dead and that this
crown of life would also be given to “all them that have loved his appearing” at that day
[2 Timothy4:6-8].
In the above passages it is said when we will go to Heaven in such a simple and clear
way that I cannot understand how anyone cannot understand them, or how they could
say, "Not true Lord, we are not going to wait unto You come again. If an immaterial no
substance soul were alive with the Lord immediately after death it could not be
resurrected from the dead at His coming; an immortal soul could not “put on
immortality” at the coming of Christ. In 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 Paul says nothing about a
“soul;” he is speaking of the whole person.
Scott P. Wiley in "Eternal Torment or Annihilation" makes the grave be the place
where man puts bodies but he says sheol is not the grave but a place under the earth
where God puts the souls of the dead, some in one part of sheol are happy and some in
another part of sheol are in torment, and they are waiting there for the resurrection. If
Paul and all the saved go to be with the Lord at death and the Lord is in Heaven there is
no such place as sheol or hades. If the dead all go to sheol and they are with the Lord, the
Lord would be some place under the earth in sheol, not in Heaven, not setting on the right
hand of God. BEING TRANSPORTED TO HEAVEN OR HELL INSTANTLY AT
DEATH MAKES ALL THE PASSAGES THAT SPEAK OF THE DEAD BEING IN
SHEOL OR HADES A LIE AND ALL THE PASSAGES THAT SPEAK OF THE
RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD A LIE FOR THOSE IN HEAVEN COULD NOT BE
DEAD; AND MAKES THE BIBLE SAY ONE THING IN ONE PLACE AND
ANOTHER THING IN ANOTHER PLACE.
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COMPANION BIBLE by E.W. Bullinger, on 2 Corinthians 5:8: “It is little less than a crime for
anyone to pick out certain words and frame them into a sentence, not only disregarding the
scope and context, but ignoring the other words in the verse, and quote the words ‘absent from
the body, present with the Lord’ with the view of dispensing with the hope of the Resurrection
(which is the subject of the whole passage) as though it were unnecessary; an as though ‘present
with the Lord’ is obtainable without it.”
[5]. ANOTHER PASSAGE THAT W. E. VINE USED
"THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT"
He used “the spirits of just men made perfect” to prove that the spirits of dead just
men are alive in Heaven and have been made perfect. Hebrews 12:22-23 is a list of seven
ways the New Covenant is NOW better than the Old Covenant. Paul said they HAD
COME, not will come after death to the spirits of just men made perfect. This was then,
while Paul and the others were alive, it was before death, before the Resurrection, before
the Judgment, before anyone will be in Heaven they had already come "to the spirits of
just men made perfect." We could not have come to the spirits of those made perfect in
Heaven for they are not yet in Heaven. If it did refer to spirits in Heaven after the
Resurrection, they would not have been "made perfect" when Paul was writing this,
which was before the Resurrection.
Seven ways the New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant.
1. You have not come unto a mount that could be touched and that burned with fire,
"but YOU ARE COME unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the
heavenly Jerusalem."
2. You are come "To innumerable hosts of angels."
3. You are come "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are
enrolled in heaven."
4. You are come "To God the Judge of all."
5. You are come "To the spirits of just men made perfect." "And to the spirits of the
righteous made perfect" [New Revised Standard Version]
6. You are come "To Jesus the mediator of a new covenant."
7. You are come "To the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel."
If the "spirits" of the just dead were now in Heaven, the just dead under both the Old
and New Covenants would be in Heaven and would not prove the New Covenant to be
better than the Old Covenant. It would be out of place in this list of ways the New
Covenant is better than the Old Covenant. THOSE WHO BELIEVE ALL, THE SAVED
AND THE LOST, HAVE SOULS THAT ARE NOW IMMORTAL BELIEVE THEY
WERE JUST AS IMMORTAL UNDER THE LAW AS THEY ARE NOW,
THEREFORE, IT WOULD NOT BE A WAY THE NEW COVENANT IS BETTER
THAN THE OLD.
When and how are the spirits of just man made perfect? "The spirits of just men
made perfect" refers to men made perfect by having their sins washed away by the
blood of Christ. We have had our sins washed away and have come to have fellowship
with others who have been made perfect by having their sins washed away.
Adam Clarke in his Commentary on Hebrews 12:23, "In several parts of this epistle teleiov, the
just man, signifies one who has a full knowledge of the Christian system, who is justified and
saved by Christ Jesus; and the teteleiwnemoi are the adult Christians, who are opposed to the
nhpioi or babes in knowledge and grace...The spirits of the just men made perfect, or the
righteous perfect, are the full grown Christians; those who are justified by the blood and
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sanctified by the Spirit of Christ. Being come to such, implies that spiritual union which the
disciples of Christ have with each other, and which they possess how far so ever separate; for
they are all joined in one spirit, #Eph 2:18; they are in the unity of the spirit, #Eph 4:3, 4; and of
one soul, #Ac 4:32. This is a unity which was never possessed even by the Jews themselves in
their best state; it is peculiar to real Christianity: (See Heb 12:29)."
There is no way we could have come to the "spirits" of those in Heaven; if they were
in Heaven, they would be beyond our reach unto we are in Heaven with them. We would
not have come to them.
"And to the spirits of the righteous made perfect" [New Revised Standard Version]. If
disembodied spirits were in Heaven and in any way had fellowship or communication
with us it would prove Spiritualism, which is forbidden by God. Most all who uses this to
prove the soul is now immortal do not believe we have any communication with the dead
if they are in Heaven, Hell, the grave, or any other place, therefore, we could not have
came unto them.
WHEN THIS IS USED TO PROVE THAT AFTER DEATH WE HAVE A
“SOUL” THAT IS ALIVE AND MADE PERFECT, IT MAKES THE JUDGMENT
AND RESURRECTION BE 100% TOTALLY USELESS. The “made perfect” in
Hebrews 12:23 is something that had happened, not something that will not happen unto
after the resurrection.
• “To the spirits of just men made perfect [telioo]” [Hebrews 12:23]
• “Herein is our love made perfect [telioo]” [1 John 4:17]
• “He that fears is not made perfect [telioo] in love” [1 John 4:18]
• “And by works was faith made perfect [telioo]” [James 2:22]
[6]. ANOTHER PASSAGE W. E. VINE USED, JAMES 2:26
“For as the body apart from the spirit is dead”
See below [2] in PASSAGES IN WHICH "SPIRIT" [pneuma] IS USED BY MANY
AS IF IT IS THE SAME AS "SOUL" [psukee].
THE GREAT CONFUSION: Soul or spirit or both?
Two terms that comes from different words
And are not used interchangeable in the Bible
Yet both are said to be an "immaterial, invisible part of man"
Does a person have an immortal soul or an immortal spirit that is not subject to death
and that has eternal life without the resurrection? How many immortal parts does a
person have? If two, a soul and a spirit, will both of the immortal parts of a person always
exist as two independent and separate beings? If one, which is the immortal part of a
person, the soul, or the spirit? Vine says they are different, "Generally speaking the spirit